S9E4 - Ravi Holy
In this episode, Rabiah talks with Ravi Holy—a vicar, comedian, and leader of a therapeutic program for adult survivors of child abuse. Ravi shares his remarkable journey from punk theater and addiction to recovery, faith, and finding his calling in the Church of England. He discusses the intersection of comedy, ministry, and therapy, the challenges of serving a community, and the importance of honesty and resilience. Plus, Ravi answers the Fun Five and shares how you can connect with him.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
00:34 Meet Ravi Holy: Vicar, Comedian, and Program Leader
01:22 Ravi’s Background: From Cambridge to London
02:10 Punk Theater, Addiction, and Recovery
04:14 Finding Faith and the Path to Sobriety
06:04 Experiences with Religion: From Cult to Church of England
09:45 Becoming a Vicar and Discovering a Calling
13:30 The Realities and Surprises of Vicar Life
15:00 Comedy and Ministry: How Standup Informs Preaching
18:00 Getting Started in Comedy and Early Gigs
21:00 Running Heal for Life: Supporting Survivors of Child Abuse
25:00 Integrating Comedy, Ministry, and Therapy
27:00 Burnout, Resilience, and Staying Sane as a Clergy Member
29:00 Advice and Mantras: Honesty and Growth
30:00 Fun Five Questions
33:00 Where to Find Ravi and Closing Thoughts
Note from Host:
Since they are people, a lot of comics are more than just comics. With Ravi Holy, that was obvious when I met him. He was dressed in clericals. I was intrigued that a vicar was performing comedy and loved his set. Since then we have gigged together and have had the chance to chat and now I’m sharing one of those chats with you.
I know episodes have been sparse. I love sharing my conversations and will keep going until I don’t love it anymore. And I’ll try to share more regularly. Thank you for reading and thank you for listening. It is a privilege to have any ears or eyes on the podcast and I appreciate your time. If it is your first time here, check out more. There are over 100 cool people to listen to and find inspiration from!
Host Rabiah (London) chats with vicar and comic Ravi Holy (Wye).
Transcript
Rabiah Coon (host): [00:00:00] This is More Than Work, the podcast reminding you that your self worth is made up of more than your job title. Each week I'll talk to a guest about how they discovered that for themselves. You'll hear about what they did, what they're doing, and who they are. I'm your host, Rabiah. I work in IT, perform standup comedy, write, volunteer, and of course, podcast.
Thank you for listening. Here we go!
Hey, welcome back to More Than Work everyone. So, today my guest is someone I've met on the comedy circuit in London, but I could have met him at his day job too. It's Ravi Holy. He's a vicar, a comedian, and he runs a non-religious therapeutic program for adult
survivors of child abuse. So we're gonna get into all of the subjects with him today. So thanks for being here, Ravi.
Ravi Holi: Great to be here. Great to see you again.
Rabiah Coon (host): Yeah, [00:01:00] you too. So, um, where am I talking to you from today?
Ravi Holi: Huh? Why? If, if you remember that joke of mine. Because, because I live in a village called Wye, is, between Ashford and Canterbury. So it's always really awkward when someone will asks me where I live.
Rabiah Coon (host): So, did you grow up in London or where'd you grow up?
Ravi Holi: Uh, so I grew up in Cambridge.
Rabiah Coon (host): and then what brought you to London?
Ravi Holi: So I moved to London when I was 18 to join, England's only punk fringe theater company.
Rabiah Coon (host): Nice.
Ravi Holi: Which was called Wet Paint Theater.
I was kind of supposed to be the kind of playing the lead role in the play that they were gonna do touring Europe. But unfortunately the company split up before, I think before I'd even really done one rehearsal.
I think the guy who was running it had some issues. And it all went a bit pear shaped. So I, was then sort of in London [00:02:00] without any particular reason to be there, but I didn't really wanna go back to Cambridge, so I just sort of stayed in London.
Rabiah Coon (host): Nice. And then you were in a band, right? You you post pictures every once in a while of you back in the day.
Ravi Holi: I wanted to be in a band. You know, probably before I wanted to be in a punk fit company. But I, I mean, because I was a kind of drug addict, uh, I'd never really got it together to, to be in a proper band. And so I actually only finally got into a band after I'd sort of, quit drugs and alcohol, been through rehab, and in fact the, the band were all people I met through rehab, or, or like, one of them was like one of my old mates who had followed me into it to, to rehab.
But we, yeah, so the point is, we were, when we started out, we were all like, recovering drug addicts and, and like my first couple of gigs were at, conventions of Narcotics Anonymous before we [00:03:00] then, started playing the job.
Rabiah Coon (host): wow. So did you, I mean, you were pretty young when you were already like in that, right. And do you mind talking about that at all
Ravi Holi: not at all. Not at
Rabiah Coon (host): Okay. So, yeah. So you were pretty young when you were like started using right.
And just kind of got into that scene of, of drugs, I guess.
Ravi Holi: Yeah. I mean, I mean, in some, I mean, ironically, I was actually a bit of a late starter, so I didn't really start drink. I, I'd never tasted alcohol until I kind of went to boarding school at 13. Um, and, so, and I only kind of, uh, smoked weed for the first time when I was about 15, shortly before I was kicked out of boarding school.
But then I kind of, really after getting kicked out of school and, and then home, I kind of. Absolutely just do dove into the deep end of, so I was then kind of drinking a lot and, and taking, lot, lots of drugs. I mean, it was really [00:04:00] only about a three year period, before I kind of hit rock bottom and, found, found recovery a a and indeed God, which was sort of pretty much the same event.
In fact, kind of God came first, followed by recovery about 30 seconds later. But yeah, so I, I mean I, so I was nine, I was 19, uh, when I got sober. And, and I'm like 37 years sober now, which is...
Rabiah Coon (host): wow.
Ravi Holi: yeah, well, and it's, I mean, it's it, 'cause I was telling someone that the other day.
And I kind of thought, I even sent, I was like, hang on, I can't be 37 years.
It must, I must, I must have, I must mean 27. It can't be 37 years, but it, it is
Rabiah Coon (host): Yeah. Yeah, I mean things I, I know I'm having the same, I think we're probably a
similar age then where I'm kind of going, oh, 25 years ago and I go, wait, what? Like, yeah. 'cause I was 19, 26 years [00:05:00] ago, right. And I go, how did that happen? Like, how did it all that time go by? It's, it's really extraordinary. But good for you. I mean, congrats on, well, you're 37. Okay. you're 10 years older. I did the math there 'cause I was going with your other number, your 27, your refactored number, but you like, um. That's, I mean, that's extraordinary as far as just, doing that and, and realizing at a young age, thankfully, because, uh, I mean, I, in, in my, in my, um, family, I, I experienced a loss of my brother to, to, drugs and
Ravi Holi: Uh, did you? Oh,
Rabiah Coon (host): Uh, specifically fentanyl.
And so it's extraordinary, knowing when someone gets through that and works through that because it's, it's really difficult. And so you, you did that, you went to rehab and you got clean and you also found, God, I mean, I know all the anonymous kind of programs have that as, as part of the center, but, um, what did that mean for you?
Like, were you raised in a [00:06:00] religious home at all, or was it brand new to you?
Ravi Holi: well, well, so, uh, I mean, I, I was, huh raised in a, well, a very weird home. Um, so, uh, my mum was Catholic and quite devout. My father was an atheist, having been, it, having been brought up a Hindu. So I was raised Catholic, but it didn't really take, um, and, or maybe it did. I, I mean, but certainly I, I sort of declared myself an atheist at 15.
I then, through kind of taking lots of drugs, kind of had various, meta, spiritual supernatural experiences. So I kind of thought, okay, well I think there is something, I was like, not an atheist, but I was also like a long way from believing in any kind of God in the, in the traditional sense.
Until I kind of hit this sort of rock bottom where I was like well, I, you know, I could probably think, and I need some help here. And [00:07:00] I, there's, there's literally no one else I can ask for help because, you know, I was estranged from my parents didn't have any other family. Everyone I knew was a drug addict.
So I kind of prayed as a, as a kind of last resort and, you know, felt that that prayer was answered. 'cause as I, the exact moment I sort of sent up this prayer, some, a friend of mine who had joined one of the 12 step fellowships like nine months before and had a go at, selling me on it, which I hadn't which I'd ignored.
He kind of walked through the door at that exact moment. So for me, that was like, okay, well that's the prayer. You know what I, the prayer is answered with clear information. What I need to do is go to these meetings and actually do what they do, what I'm told. So I, you know, a lot of people who, who go to 12 Steps really struggle with the kind of spiritual religious angle [00:08:00] 'cause they're, they're kind of gamble. Well, I'm only, my problem is alcohol. I, I didn't ask for God to get involved. Whereas I was the other way around that I sort of turned up there going, God's told me to come here, what do I do? So, that was, that was fine for me. And I, and then I think over, over time I sort of found my way back to Christianity, which sort of just, made, made sense to me.
I mean, hey, I don't, we're supposed to be talking about lots of stuff, not, I, I mean, I'm not, I'm not here to, I don't, I have no desire to be a televangelist, so I'm not, I'm not trying to convert your people. I'm just telling you my story, you know, that's just what, what, what happened.
I, mean, so the the brand of Christianity that I then got involved with was completely crazy. As I kind of talk a bit about in my set, I dunno if I, I, I dunno if you've seen my longer set where I go a bit more into that, but, I effectively joined a cult, right?
And it, and I was in this very [00:09:00] kind of crazy full on fundamentalist Pentecostal church for, for several years, which I eventually kind of, escaped from. And, then found my way in, into the Church of England, which is obviously a much broader, more liberal, you know, more intell, intellectually rigorous.
Inclusive kind of community that, that, which is where I kind of naturally belong. I think.
I mean, obviously we have our own conservative fundamentalist wing, and I'm still probably at the kind of extreme, extreme left of even the Church of England constituency. But, I, I kind of, I'm at home here and
Rabiah Coon (host): yeah. So I mean, and I think it makes sense. I mean, to go kind of dive deep into one place. I, there are certain parts of Christianity that are, I don't know, sects I guess, [00:10:00] of Christianity that will find the people who need more at a time and will be able to get them. And I mean, I went through that in college like there was this Campus Crusade for Christ, and I would go there and it was like, you're doing worship songs and then you're doing bible study and you're all in, and like it becomes to the point where you have all these friends so you can't possibly leave now. And, um, I got kicked out of a Bible study actually that was in my own home that I, I had to go to my room. Because I, well, I, I write about this a little bit, so I still haven't worked out how to make it like super funny to people other than me.
But basically, like we were doing the Bible study, I was working quite a lot during college. Like I had to work to go to school, right? So I was working with full time, so I hadn't really read the whole passage we were supposed to study and I said, well, I didn't have time. I was being honest, I didn't have time. And the, the woman, like the leader was like, well, you have to do this. Like, if you're not gonna do this, you're not gonna be [00:11:00] part of whatever. And I said, well, I had to work, like, and I said, I needed money. It's like books. We had to buy books. And she goes, um, you know what I do and I need money, I pray. And I get a check for my parents every month. And I said, well, I work and I get a check. And I said, I get a check twice a month. I go, so mine might be working better. And that was it. And so I, I went into my room while they finished bible study in the living room, but I get it right. Like, you, you find something.
And I, I've struggled with being like a Christian then an atheist and an agnostic. And I don't know where I am right now. I'm kind of agnostic ish, but it's interesting, I think to go from an atheist to, to something else. And, but now you're a vicar, so I want to hear. Really, I mean, I was so thrilled the first time I met you.
Just cause I was so enthralled that you were vicar. I don't know if you remember, it was kind of embarrassing to me. I was like, oh hi. I wanna talk to you. Like I was very drawn to you because I thought it was cool. And then I've seen you to other gigs [00:12:00] and you
are cool, but
how did you become a vicar?
Ravi Holi: I mean, so when I was going to this church that I'm sort of slightly unfairly calling a cult. I mean, the church that I, that I went to for about five years was cult-like, it wa it wasn't technically a cult, um, but it had a cultic aspect. But, it was, and a bit like you said, 'cause in a way it worked for me at the time.
I mean, it was a good place. You know, lots of really great things happened there. And I mean, the one thing you could never say about Pentecostals is that they don't take their faith seriously. I mean, they take it very seriously, right.
And, um, you, you know, it's like having discovered this to me, you know, reality of God. It's like, well, if this is real, then it's the most important thing there is by definition. And that, that remains the case, 35 years later.
Um, so I suppose for, there was a period of about 10 years where I was doing, you know, jobs to pay the bills. But I [00:13:00] had, no real interest in what I was doing. And, and, my passion and my passion was, God and the church and religion and stuff, that's what, that's what actually turned me on and got me outta bed in the morning sort of thing.
And then I think roundabout, as I was, I turned 30, was now married, I met my wife at that. The crazy church. Um, and we kind of left, it was roundabout the time we got to get part of how and why we got together was going, look, we both think this is crazy, let's move.
And, that's, that was sort of how we, how we ended leaving. I was working in sales in the software business and, my boss was kind of, you know, I was doing okay and my boss was like, all right, we need to talk about your career path for the next 30 years.
And I, I was kind of like, hang on. I didn't really mean to be here for as long as I've been here. The thought that I would be doing this for another year is horrifying, let alone the idea that this is my life. [00:14:00] So my wife and I sort of went off on this sort of do it yourself retreat.
We just went away for a weekend to a kind of, spa to kind of chill out and. For me, it was a time of, reflection and, and prayer, kind of, seeking God's will for what to do with the rest of my life. And, and in some ways it was partly just because I was finding what I was doing, very dissatisfying and, I was working long hours and didn't really have any time for myself.
And so I was almost, in the first few days on this, retreat, I was almost just thinking, well, I, whatever I end up doing, I, I want to get out of the rat race. I, so I was almost thinking, well, maybe I'll just resign. We'll move to the country and I'll just get a job as a postman or something so I can just earn enough to live, but, actually have some time to enjoy life, and, and then basically we ended up, meeting some fellow, there was some people staying in the same place who were two vicar's wives on a [00:15:00] post-Christmas holiday. And then when we got talking to them and I was, they just, they, they went, look, you should be a vicar. You're clearly a natural.
And it, and again, it was just that kind of, the fact that we'd gone away and prayed, and then we find ourselves sitting there with these two women going, you should be a vicar,
you know, was like a personal message. And, and, and I mean, having, but it's having, but I mean, I've, I've just been really happy for the last 23 years.
I, I love what I do. It, it, yeah. It's just perfectly suited to my personality type, my, my skills, my strengths, my values. I, I kind of love what I do,
I mean. I, i'm self-diagnosed with ADHD, right? But I, I kind of get bored very quickly. And, the worst thing I could imagine would be just doing the same thing all day, every day.
[00:16:00] Whether that was in a factory or being a gp. I mean, I always just think sitting in a, an office, just having people come in and moaning about their back or whatever, every 10 minutes would drive me crazy. Whereas as a vicar, I just kept to do all sorts. I mean, and, and the thing is, it's a job where you kind of can just write your own job description.
I mean, there's, there's certain things you have to do, but then, you can choose to focus on the things that you are good at, that turn you on as long as you've got other people to cover it.
I do my Sunday services, I do weddings, I do funerals, and that, I mean, doing comedy, which I've been doing for about 10 years has, has benefited my ministry so much.
The average vicar, in the sort of sermon slot, just as sort of like this sort of five minutes, very earnest sort of going on about, whereas I, I just basically do a tailor made standup routine for that couple and they love it. Their family [00:17:00] and friends love it, it really works. Equally I love doing funerals.
Because it's, you're in a position where you can really, really help a family when they really, really need it. You know, you do a good funeral for, for, for a family. They, they love you till the day you die. You really kind of feel that you are doing some good in the world.
And, that's a great thing. But, also, like having been in a band, being a comic, being a sort of natural performer, show off exhibitionist, whatever it is, we are, when I go in to do assemblies in the local schools, I'm not really interested in going in and telling the story of the Good Samaritan, because it's not really appropriate in our culture, quite frankly.
Over the last few years, I have kind of gone in as Elvis, as Freddie Mercury and as Elton John and performed the songs of those artists in end of year [00:18:00] assemblies. And the, the great thing about little kids is that they, they just still, I mean, these are still children that believe in Santa.
So, they're all going home going, oh, mum, Elvis pre came and sung our assembly today. They think I'm the real Elvis, the real Freddie, even though those people are dead. Yeah.
Rabiah Coon (host): Yeah. No, that's great. And I think it's, I mean, you've talked about what you like about it, but I guess like is there anything that maybe you perceived that a vicar did before you were one that is like a lot different I guess. Because, well, my mom for example, she watches a lot of these, um. these murder mysteries about small towns in England. 'Cause I told her, like, I, I sent the photo when we were in the fi uh, when we got through in that one competition together, you and I, I sent her the photo and I said, oh, it's like, here's me, me and Vicar, and she was like, oh, cool. And she was, and she was like saying how she loves the vicars in those shows, and so I, I, think she now has an idea of what a vicar does. But is there something that kind of surprised you [00:19:00] about your job?
Ravi Holi: That's a really good question. I, I mean, I think in some ways I almost didn't really know what the job involved when I, first said I wanted to do it. I mean, I, I suppose, I had an idea of what a church leader did from, , at that point more of my church experience was in this kind of Pentecostal world or the Baptist world.
Maybe I'd been to an Anglican church for a little while, but I, so I suppose I saw it more as, which is like leading services, preaching, teaching pastoral care, which is, it is all, it is all those things. Um, I mean, I think the, the, and again, we're gonna get quite technical in sort of theological language, but I mean, I think there's two different ways of doing church.
So like, the American system, And, and kind of Pentecostal and [00:20:00] Baptist churches in this country are, the technical term is they're gathered churches. So they, they're basically a community that services itself and doesn't really necessarily connect with their local community at all.
So like for example, if I was a Pentecostal minister in Luton, I would only take the weddings and funerals of members of that congregation. Whereas, the Church of England is, is the, is the established church of the land and therefore any person who lives in the community has a legal right to have their wedding or funeral or baptism there, whether they've ever been to church before or not. So I am regularly doing, all those services for people that have had no contact with the church before and may not have any.
It's a completely different role. It's a, it's a totally different style of [00:21:00] church and a whole a different mentality.
In a sense, I don't differentiate between as it were, the chaplain to the whole community I live in, not just the Christians within it.
Very different to my, uh, view of church before. But, i, I've been sort of, trained in that model by the Church of England and by the vicar who trained me. And then that's now how I think it should be. So all the people I've trained, I've trained in the same kind of way.
Rabiah Coon (host): That's great. And then, how did you start to do comedy?
Ravi Holi: It really was by accident that I got into it. 'cause I mean, when I was first, came outta rehab and so in the eighties, I was a punk. I didn't have a job and I just got unemployment benefit. I never had a job, didn't want one. And then once I'd sort of. been through rehab and, realized that I needed to be a respectable citizen and was then thinking about okay, [00:22:00] I mean that's when I, I I wanted to kind of get into acting.
I think I'd already, and I'd already had that sort of failed attempt at getting into acting, which, which I mentioned earlier. I signed up for this Inpro class run by a company called Theatresports, which was the original Inpro group that did, "Whose Line is it Anyway?" and stuff.
And I was like, there were about, I don't know 20 or 30 people doing this course and everyone bar me. And one other girl was a, a working comic. I was like about the only non-standup
Rabiah Coon (host): Mm-hmm.
Ravi Holi: And funnily enough, one of the people in that group was Eddie Izzard, who obviously now is one of the biggest comedians that.
So I was actually, in doing workshops with them before, this was, before they were as famous as they are now. And I can remember at the time thinking, wow, I mean acting fine. Singing in a band, fine. But, there is no way I would ever want to get up on the stage [00:23:00] and try and make people laugh and face the horror of them not laughing at me.
Uh, so it was, it never really, it was not something I'd ever had any desire to do at all. But I think after I got ordained and started preaching, I mean most, preachers will kind of try and stick a joke in here and there to kind of get people.
Rabiah Coon (host): Yeah.
Ravi Holi: Limbered up, so I was kind of consciously trying to do that, and I found, you know, that I kind of quite liked the feedback of laughter.
That feeling of, you say something funny and people laugh.
It's a, if you are an addict personality and all of that, it's kind of, it's quite a nice affirmation. So I, I was sort of consciously and, for more, healthy motives; it also, that it, it, engages people. If, if, if when you
get in the pulpit, you're kind of making people laugh a bit and they're going, oh, oh, this, this is, this guy's great. [00:24:00] Then they'll listen to what else you've got to say, rather than them going, oh, I'll just switch. I'll just take the next 10 minutes to switch off and think about something else.
So I, I was doing that. And then I saw this advert in our trade press, The Church Times where it was talk, it wasn't an advert, it was an article talking about a comedian that was running a workshop for priests...
Rabiah Coon (host): hmm.
Ravi Holi: uh, or for preachers, uh, to, to learn comedy techniques to make their sermons more interesting.
So I was, I was just, well, that, that's got my name on it. I'm really interested in that. So I rang the guy up and said, I'd like to sign up for the course. So he is a vicar's son who is a, practicing Christian and a comedian, and he runs, a comedy course for, for anyone. He does kind of corporate stuff of, for public, anyone who wants to use comedy techniques and public speaking. And his vicar had said you should do [00:25:00] one specifically for Vicars. Which he did. So he, his name's Bentley Browning and his organization's called Comedy Novices. And, uh, but he did this this, new thing called "Comedy for Clergy". And, uh, I was like, well, I really wanna do this.
He said, okay, well, you basically do the course. During the course, you'll kind of work on a routine and at the end of it, we do a little gig in a local pub and everyone gets up and does like a five minute spot. And, and I was going, well look, I'm happy to do the course, but there is no way that I am going to do that.
But actually once I did the course and realized that, most comedians are actually delivering a routine that they have written, rehearsed and refined, rather than just being that funny off the, off the cuff. I was like, oh, right, okay, well I think I could probably do that.
And, I thought [00:26:00] I'd, I, I said I'd have a go.
I actually only did his taster the workshop because, I think in some ways, I think I picked things up quite quickly, right.
Rabiah Coon (host): Mm-hmm.
Ravi Holi: and, in terms of sort of basic public speaking, that was already something I'd been doing for years. So I, I was just like, oh, right, I see I, all I need to do is act my, so I went back to the sort of follow up workshop,
having worked on a routine, which I was, gonna, try out. And, um, Bentley was going, oh look, I've got BBC London here. And they, 'cause they're doing a feature on, Comedy for Clergy and, uh, they want someone to get up and do their routine, but everyone's said they don't wanna do it. Would, would you be up for that?
And I was like, yeah, alright. Why, why not? Let's, let's, let's do it. And, and then so long story short, that piece then ended up being on BBC London and like a week later. But you know, the TV show and then that [00:27:00] night Bentley and I got a call from BBC One going, right, We've booked your tickets up to Media City in Manchester.
You're on the red sofa with Naga Munchetty tomorrow morning, which was timed to coincide with the gig. So like, the day that I did my first gig, I'd been, on TV before. You know, I've been worrying about speaking to 20 people in a pub in Islington and in I then I to sort of go and attempt to be funny on BBC one.
But, and so of course like loads of my mates came to that first gig. And again, it was, I mean, I felt like a real rock star, 'cause when I arrived at the gig as well, there was another TV crew there who were kind of filming an interview with me before going on to do the gig. So I, I was on a real high gig, went well, so then that was it.
I was addicted to doing comedy. I mean, if that, if that first gig hadn't gone well, I'd have
probably done it again. [00:28:00] But,
Rabiah Coon (host): Wow.
Ravi Holi: and in fact my, my, so that was my first gig. The One Show then did a follow up piece on this. They came down to Canterbury to film another, uh, and uh, that was due to film, screen on a Thursday night a few months later.
And, and the day it was supposed to be going out, they rang me going, um, would you actually be able to come into the studio tonight in addition to the, and, and I was going, oh, I can't, I've got, like, I'm meeting a wedding couple this afternoon, I'm doing a wedding tomorrow. We've got the rehearsal tonight so I can't really make it.
And they were going, oh, that's a real shame. 'cause we've got the four Inbetweeners in the studio who were there promoting their new film. And we thought what would be fun would be to do a kind of clerical comedy competition. So we've got, we've already got a Catholic and a Methodist, and we wanted you to be the Church of England vicar doing comedy, and the Inbetweeners can judge it.
So I'm a, I'm a massive Inbetweeners fan, so. I just went, alright, I'll be there and I'll [00:29:00] just negotiate with the couple about changing the rehearsal time. So, so my third gig was live on BBC one in front of 6 million people. And, and I, I, I mean, it's like you supposed to work
your way up to being on telly, whereas I started off on telly and then it basically just disappeared down into, I mean, I, I haven't actually done a gig since, since my semi-final,
right.
Because I, I'm just not really chasing, I just have, I'm just not chasing gigs anymore. I, I mean, I've got a few in the diary where people have booked me, but
yeah.
Rabiah Coon (host): Yeah. That's, that's super cool. Um, I would say and yeah. What a, what a career high right at the start. That's amazing.
And and one thing I wanna just see if you wanna chat about, I mean, you, you said too you like, have this, this run, this, program for adult survivors of child [00:30:00] abuse. So do you wanna talk about what that is?
Ravi Holi: Yeah. No, it's very, it's, it's very close to my heart.
So it's a, it's called Heal for Life and it began in Australia 25 years ago.
So all the people who kind of run it are and involved in it are survivors of some form of childhood trauma or abuse, normally abuse, the themselves. And, um, and I mean, again, that was part of why I sort of left the Pentecostal church that, that I was in many years ago. Not 'cause of any abuse there, but that it was, while attending there, after I'd been off drugs a few years and started to do a bit of therapy, that kind of the full scale of like stuff that had happened to me when I was a kid, bec either, that I realized that things that I'd just accepted as normal were not normal and, and were actually, criminal abuse. But, but also things that I'd actually [00:31:00] completely streamed out, dissociated, sort of, unthawed and, and made themselves, apparent to me and, and I was in like the worst possible environment to be dealing with that stuff because it, this, this culture of Pentecostalism was so, denial based.
I'd be kind of talking about, oh, this, these things happened and, and, and not just like random people in the congregation. I mean, even sort of senior leaders there were saying to me things like, well, maybe the devil's put these, maybe, are you sure these things actually happened?
Maybe the devil's put this idea in your mind to kind of, um, and then going, and then anyway, even if it did happen, it is in the past, Whoever is in Christ is a new creation. Hallelujah. And you just need to forgive the people who've done this to you and all, all of this crazy, crazy, crazy toxic nonsense which [00:32:00] was part of why I got the hell out of that environment.
So I think then I, and then I spent a long time in therapy kind of working through stuff and it was roundabout the time that one, one of my favorite quotes ever is Freud said "that the aim of psychoanalysis is to convert neurotic misery into the everyday unhappiness that everyone has to deal with", right?
And uh,
Rabiah Coon (host): Yeah.
Ravi Holi: and so I as around about the point where I was getting thinking, yeah, I think I am now no more messed up or miserable than everybody else is, and that was about the time that I then felt this call to, to ordain ministry as well. So I, I think when I was then sort of going off to train to be a vicar. It was something I, I thought, well, one thing I would like to do in my ministry is try and, but [00:33:00] try and provide help for people who are trying to come to terms with, childhood abuse, um, childhood trauma. I, I I know what I wanted and needed and didn't get.
So I, I would love to be able to try and provide that for other people, but had no idea, how I would ever do that. I just kind of left that on the wishlist. And then bizarrely when I, when I moved to the, the place I now live the people that set this thing up in Australia, or the family of the people who set this thing up in Australia, lived here, and it was, they were one of the first couples I got to know when I moved here.
They were telling me about the work and
Rabiah Coon (host): Mm-hmm.
Ravi Holi: asking if I would support it as vicar, not even knowing my kind of history. It really felt like it was handed to me on a plate. So I, I kind of went out to Australia to sort of do the course [00:34:00] for myself and it was, it was transformative for, for me. And then, uh, the following year we sort of set it up here.
So we, what we, what we actually do is we, we run like these sort of residentials like two or three times a year as it's like a five day program, which is designed to just give people a kind of super safe environment where they've got the time and the space to actually kind of get into stuff much more than they could in a sort of standard 15 minute.
Therapy session. And it's really, it's really powerful. And interestingly that when it was set up in Australia, it was gently christian, so it was slightly more Christian than the 12 step groups we were talking about earlier. So yeah, it would sort of say, look, those of us who set this up are Christians and we believe that having a relationship with God or a higher power, as you [00:35:00] understand that will be beneficial in your, your recovery or your healing journey.
And so we built, we have a little session each day, which just gives you a bit of time and space to explore that. But you know, we're not heavy about it. And, and that's how it was in Australia and it seemed to work there, but soon as we started trying to run it here in exactly the same way; The minute we said anything about God, people would just get really triggered and angry and go, well, I didn't come to be.
Rabiah Coon (host): Yeah.
Ravi Holi: And like my colleagues were sort of going, oh, you know what's going on? No, no one ever did this in Australia. And it was like, well, yeah, that's 'cause they're Australia, isn't it? The national motto of Australia, as you may know is, "she'll be all right mate, whatever."
They're the most laid people, but, and the British are sort of much more uptight and touchy, so what it, ironically, and a sort of, [00:36:00] zen move, I, the vicar said, look, we need to make this program completely non-religious because the, we are just putting barriers. The actual work we do is just therapeutic. It makes no more difference what you do or don't believe about God. Whether you voted remain or, or leave. It's completely irrelevant, so it, it's really, since at least 2014, it is operated as an entirely secular therapeutic program. Yeah.
Rabiah Coon (host): Cool. That's awesome work. That you're doing.
Ravi Holi: I recently had my, my first academic article published on this subject. I did a kind of reflection on ministry and was saying that, so effectively I have these three strings to, my, my core thing is being a vicar. And then I do the comedy on the one hand, the therapy on the other. The comedy and therapy could, in [00:37:00] one sense seem like very different, although of course comedy is a form of therapy and, whatever. But actually both of them flow quite naturally out of my core role.
I mean, so comedy is just like preaching with more jokes. And, obviously the therapy is an overflow of pastoral work. So it's, I kind of feel that I, I've ended up where I have these three things that I do that to the naked eye might seem, how do they fit together? But they all fit together really well, and I think each one makes me better at the other. So it's this kind of constantly, it's a positive feedback loop and I think it also keeps me sane as well. And that this was like the main focus of the, the article I wrote because there's actually a very high rate of burnout and breakdown among clergy.
I mean, huge. So there, there was [00:38:00] a sort of thing recently, I think like at least a third of clergy in the Church of England are, are on antidepressants. 'cause the job so demanding. Lots of my colleagues have sort of had periods of time off work due to mental health issues directly caused by just being in the kind of stuff they're having to deal with in the parish.
And, and sometimes I've had to deal with all the same stuff, but I have these two ways of kind of, you know, getting outside that and, and, having more positive experiences, so Yeah.
Rabiah Coon (host): Wow. Yeah, I mean, that is a good way to like kind of sum it up too 'cause they do seem unrelated, but then, then, you do see how the things feed. I mean, it's like cross-functional skills in a way in my world, you know?
So,
Ravi Holi: yeah. Yeah. A hundred
Rabiah Coon (host): One thing, ravi, that I like to ask everybody, so I had do these fun five questions that
are my last questions for everyone. But before that, I like to just ask, do you have any advice or [00:39:00] mantra that you'd like to share with people?
Ravi Holi: I just think for me, My fundamental value is honesty with self and others, which which probably is again, you know, almost word for word out of kind of, you know, AA AA 12 step. But I mean that, you know, for me that is what kind of life and therapy and religion at its best are all about.
I mean, just to, know you know, to, you know, be the best human being that you can Um, which involves you know, your blind spots, your areas for growth are, you know, which involve rigorous honesty with yourself, with other you know.
I mean, That's really what motivates me and what I
Rabiah Coon (host): Mm-hmm.
Ravi Holi: you, you know, what to inculcate
Rabiah Coon (host): That's, yeah, it's a good way to be. It's easier to keep track of everything when you're honest with everyone, you know.
[00:40:00]
Rabiah Coon (host): Okay, so the last set of questions are the fun five.
The first question, what's the oldest t-shirt you have and still wear?
Ravi Holi: Well if, if, if, if the words and still wear so, um, I like one of my fa when I was in my, my band, which was called God's Government. and this was a, so this was after I'd found God, but before I was technically a Christian.
But um, I dunno if you know the clothing company boy who were on the Kings Road, I mean, they were associated with the Sex Pistols and it was all part of that sort of punk that came out of the punk scene of the which was, and and there was a lot of boy stuff around in, in the kind of eighties. And it was just a black t-shirt with God Squad in massive letters in white, uh, with the boy logo. And I, I mean, I just loved that t-shirt Um, And it, back in the day when I was kind of thin and pretty like, and it was the eighties, like [00:41:00] I had all, all my t-shirts had the That was the that was the kind of look right. You, you know, I mean I would, you know, you would not wanna see me in a sleeve of t-shirt and, But I love this t-shirt so much that I, and, and then I think my ex-girlfriend cut the collar off it, not out, not in some post breakup rage, but just 'cause I'd lent it to her. And for some reason she decided it would look better with the collar off, which it didn't. So it's,
Rabiah Coon (host): right.
Ravi Holi: this, it's like, and, but it's this sort of, I just couldn't bear to throw it away. So I've still got it in a drawer and I, I mean if I try, if I try and put it on, it kind of come, you know, it kind comes up to about there on me. It's like, but yeah, so I can, but, and I have vaguely thought about trying to get a mate of mine who's a tailor to kind of sew the core patch of it onto another black t-shirt. In fact, I am gonna do [00:42:00] that. That's something I'm, I'm gonna do 'cause I need
Rabiah Coon (host): Yeah.
Ravi Holi: Um, other um, a couple of t-shirts by the clothing company, ring spun.
I dunno if you know them. They used to do these ring spun all stars where they would have, they're kind of done, like, they're really good quality t-shirts modeled on a kind of American baseball shirt, but with, and they just have pictures of like. Either actors or rock stars or other cultural icons on.
And I've got one which has got Travis Bickle on the and, And one that's got, again, de Niro. It's like from from Goodfellas, it's De Niro and Ray Liotta and Joe Pesci you know, all and, and Blink. I know both those t-shirts I got, I don't know, 25 years ago. Um, But they just look, still look brand new 'cause they're
Rabiah Coon (host): Awesome.
Those sound [00:43:00] cool. And i, yeah, and de Niro's a legend for sure. So, the next one, if every day was really Groundhog's Day, like, it was basically, I mean, I i, started this podcast
during lockdown, so it was really Groundhog's Day. Then we know if you were living in
Groundhog's Day, it would drive you nuts. You would not want that routine. But, um, what
song would you have your alarm set to play every morning?
Ravi Holi: Uh, well, I, um, the first song occurred to me I can see Clearly Now by Jimmy Cliff. Uh, it's not actually originally by him. I can't remember who did it originally, but he, his version of it I Uh, And it's just a really, do you know the song "I can see clearly now, the rain..."? Yeah. it's a very warm, fuzzy song.
It's just, I mean, if I was gonna have to listen to something every day that feels like something that would be a good thing to wake up to
Rabiah Coon (host): Nice. Yeah, that, no, that's a really, it's a pretty song and like you could just let it play [00:44:00] for as long as you want it, want it to, um, cool. And then, and a positive thing to wake up to in the morning. I think that's one thing, like I was reading about. Just how, like what you can do to, start to like work on anxiety and one thing was like stop picking up your phone first thing in the morning or so, like hearing that song would be way better than reading the New York Times in the morning.
Ravi Holi: Right.
Rabiah Coon (host): All right, the next one. Coffee or tea or neither?
Ravi Holi: coffee, no question. Coffee, coffee, coffee.
Rabiah Coon (host): Same.
And then can you think of a time that you like laughed so hard, you
cried, or just something that cracks you up when you think of it? Just what, what gets you?
Ravi Holi: There's a sort of serious aspect to this, but, at one point where some stuff , like stuff around my own abuse, was, coming and I was in a really dark, a place, so dark I could hardly see straight. And, as my kind of attempt to, I mean, I'm a big movie buff anyway, and I go at the cinema a lot, but, uh, so I went to see the film.
You [00:45:00] Don't Mess With The Zhan, with Adam Sandler, who is one of my guilty pleasures in life. Like, so, so a lot of my more sophisticated loving friends just do not understand, you know, why I like Adam Sandler, but I love Adam Sandler and I, don't think I have ever laughed so much as, as when I watch "You Don't Mess with the Zohan". And in some ways it was not it, it wasn't necessarily because the film was so funny. It was because I was, I just needed some kind of release so much. But you know, that film absolutely, you know, Delivered it. And I'm eternally grateful to Adam Sandler for, for that. And again, it slightly annoys me when people are down on him because, you know, like he's so, I mean, a lot of people like his stuff, you know, he's a very, very, very, very talented comedian.
[00:46:00] yeah, Yeah.
Right. Yeah. So, I did think about this question. I mean, obviously as a vicar, you know, you'd you'd expect me to say Jesus, but I, and I, I had a bit, the same issue with, we did a, a series in kind of informal service that we have at my church a few years back where, the series was, people who inspire you and a, a E each week.
A different person kind of did it. I mean, I do more than I did like two where everyone else did one. I'm the vicar, um, and. In some ways I just to be, I suppose, you know, I've still [00:47:00] got this punk rock mentality of like not wanting to do the same thing as everyone else does. And I wanna be a bit different.
So, the two that I did of people who inspire me, one was my dog, right? And but with a genuine point in that, in terms of like mindfulness, being in the enjoying what's actually going on around you rather than projecting or worrying and not just doing what you want rather than worrying about what you think you should do or what other people think.
I mean, my dog is totally inspirational in that, as I'm sure you know, as animals in general are. So that's My dog, who is actually sitting next to me. From asleep as as as we speak. And the other, you know, when I did the next one, the other one was me, myself. and not, not in a kind of, no, but [00:48:00] not in a, not in a narcissistic, or egotistical way. But actually, speaking as a survivor of, you know, extreme abuse of like, the fact that I have survived all the things that have me, i, i in my life, ended up being able to turn them into positive things so I'm, you know, now able to help other people. I'm, I'm really proud of myself for doing that.
I mean, obviously I, I'm not, I don't, I'm opposite of a self-made man, because my ability to do that came first of all from, from, I was completely spiritually bankrupt when I turned to God. So everything I have has been given to me. I've had a lot of help from a lot of people, whether that's in 12 step groups or the church or, you know, elsewhere, my wife, you know whatever. But I, I think nonetheless, I kind of want to acknowledge, the kind of brave survivor in me and in and in every other [00:49:00] survivor. In, all the people who come and do the kind of program that I run. 'cause they're all survivors. And we have, we have this song that we, um, play, which is called "My Brave Heart" uh, which was written survivor of a music called Karen Taylor-Good which is just honoring, the indomitable human spirit that is able
to transcend any amount of horror and kind of come fighting, smiling still, not be beaten down, not be corrupted, still be yeah. So that's my, that's my answer. Who inspires me?
Human beings.
Rabiah Coon (host): Yeah. No, that's, that's awesome. I, think it's good.
Well, Ravi, it's been awesome to have you here. So, one thing I, wanna ask is like, where do you want people to look you up? Do you want people,
you know, just where can they find you if they wanna just learn more?
Ravi Holi: Well, I, yeah, I mean, I have an Instagram account, which [00:50:00] is RevRaviHoly (@revraviholy). But I'm, because I'm old, I, I'm much more a creature of Facebook than, than Instagram, so I don't really put much on Instagram. But, on Facebook or you know, just google me.
Ravi, holy. Hopefully I will be, uh, gigging, you know. I kind of tend to advertise gigs on my sort of Facebook page. So Yeah. And my church in Wye. We're open Sundays, so if people want to come along, they'd be very welcome. Or if people have been touched by the concept of the Heal For Life weeks, then, you know, that's something else.
They can just Google me or Heal for Life and, find out about that.
Rabiah Coon (host): Cool. Well, thanks so much for being on more than Work, ravi. It was really great to talk to you.
Ravi Holi: Well, thank you for having me. great to talk to you.
Rabiah Coon (host): Thanks for listening. You can learn more about the guest and what was talked about in the show notes. Joe Maffia created the music you're listening to. You can find him on Spotify at Joe [00:51:00] M-A-F-F-I-A. Rob Metke does all the design for which I'm so grateful. You can find him online by searching Rob, M-E-T-K-E.
Please leave a review if you like the show and get in touch if you have feedback or guest ideas. The pod is on all the social channels at at More Than Work Pod (@morethanworkpod) or at Rabiah Comedy (@RabiahComedy) on TikTok. While being kind to others, don't forget to be kind to yourself.
